Episode Summary

In this Heart of Advice Podcast episode, we explore how effective discovery meetings can transform client-advisor relationships. By delving into clients’ money histories, goals, and values, advisors can offer highly personalized financial advice. This approach can help clients pursue nontraditional goals and empower them to own their unique financial journeys.

Our guest, Financial Staples Founder and Principal Chloé Moore, CFP^®, shares her successful strategies for reaching tech industry clients. She shows how financial advisors can effectively connect with a niche audience by revamping a website with specific client examples, engaging in public speaking, and writing for industry publications. As co-founder of the BLX Internship program, Chloé provides insights into how the program is helping firms connect with diverse talent. This episode offers clear, actionable steps to enhance your advisory practice through personalized client service and strategic marketing.

Here’s What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• Finding a financial planning niche to start personalizing advice 
• What it takes to start and maintain a remote financial planning practice
• How to adapt your marketing to niche market segments
• Tips for effectively serving HENRY clients, especially those who work in tech
• The elements of an effective discovery meeting and why it’s important for personalizing financial planning
• The far-reaching impact of the BLX internship

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

• Financial Staples
• Personalizing the 7-step Financial Planning Process
• Office Race: Truths About Being a Black Woman in Wealth Management
• OnceHub
• Zoom
• BLX Internship
• Shift conference

Quotes:

• “I’ve learned a lot about how to really tap into who they are on a personal level. I believe that learning more about who they are, what’s important to them, their money history, and the things they’ve experienced growing up has a huge impact on how they manage their finances now. So I just really wanted to focus on learning that and then matching that with my technical skills to give them the best chance of achieving success.”
• “When I start with clients, one of the very first things I do is just have what I call a discovery meeting. So, we talk in detail about their money history, goals, values, how they feel they’ve managed money so far, and if there are big regrets or mistakes they feel they’ve made, or things they’re proud of, or things they feel they’ve yet to accomplish. All of those things are really important to personalizing the advice that I give them.”
• “I’d say the biggest [component of successful remote financial planning] is just having some structure. Clients are accustomed to having a good system and structure in place. Make sure they know when their next meeting will happen, how often they are meeting throughout the year, what the touch points are, and having open access so that clients can reach out if they have questions or if something comes up.”
• “The most significant challenge I have with [HENRY and tech] clients is that I am often the first financial professional they have ever worked with. I educate them on how we can work together effectively and how we can function as a team. Clients can rely on me for guidance whenever they make significant financial decisions, not having to make these decisions on their own. I become their thinking partner and help them make informed decisions.”
• “Digging deep into who they are allows me to eliminate judgment and really meet them where they are. There are clients that maybe have personal goals, just some of the things that maybe are not traditional or not things that advisors would encourage them to do, such as helping their parents in retirement or helping family members, or just reaching goals outside of what typical financial advice tells you to do. I can approach that with knowing what’s important to them and making sure that I’m not judging them, but I’m really helping them make good decisions.”

Full Transcript:

Connor: Welcome to the Heart of Advice Podcast, presented by eMoney. I’m Connor Sung.

Sasha: And I’m Sasha Grabenstetter. We’re your eMoney experts. Today on the podcast, we have Chloé Moore. Chloé Moore is a Certified Financial Planner. Founder and principal of Financial Staples, a virtual fee-only financial planning firm located in Atlanta, Georgia. And she’s also the co-founder of the BLX internship, helping next-gen Black and Latinx financial planners find meaningful paid summer internships. Chloé, welcome to the podcast.

Chloé: Thank you so much for having me.

Sasha: Of course.

Connor: You’re welcome, Chloé. It’s great to have you. Before we dive into all of the other stuff about the firm and about BLX, we’d love to hear a little bit more about you. In particular, what inspired you to start your firm, the client niche? What led you to where you are today?

Chloé: Yeah. It’s funny. I never thought of myself as someone who would start my own business or have my own financial planning firm. I just always thought I’d be an employee working at a financial planning firm. I started it out of necessity, really. I felt it was the only way I could have control over my career path and my success in this profession. Just to give you a brief overview, I’ve been in the industry for 20 years now, which is crazy to think about.

Sasha: Congrats.

Chloé: Yeah. So the first 10 years of my career, I worked at a few different financial planning firms. I had a lot of obstacles. Every firm that I worked for, I was the only Black female financial planner. There were struggles that came with that and also being a young planner coming out of college. I never really saw a way to grow and succeed in the industry after working for 10 years. So that’s what really led me to start my firm. I actually wrote an article about my experiences over that time and published it on LinkedIn. It was later published in Wealth Management magazine, for anybody who’s interested in specifics.

Sasha: Oh, that’s awesome. Yeah. We’ll definitely have to link to that.

Finding a Financial Planning Niche to Personalize Services

Connor: And as you started your firm, how did you end up with the specific client niche? I know that you’ve talked about the success that you’ve had by really narrowing the focus. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Chloé: Yeah. Initially, I started my firm with the intent of serving just high-income or high-earning young professionals. Some people call them HENRYs. So I joined XY Planning Network and started my firm to work with Gen X and Gen Y clients. I ended up transitioning to tech employees because my very first clients were all in tech. I saw that as a way to use the skill sets that I learned working with corporate executives who had equity compensation, transferring that into working with young professionals in tech. They were receiving generous amounts of equity, like stock options, and didn’t really know what these things meant or how to manage them, in addition to managing their high incomes. So from that, I started to attract more tech employees and decided to switch my marketing to be specifically for tech employees. I also started naturally attracting people from underserved populations—women, people of color, LGBTQ folks in tech. I wanted to continue marketing that way as well. Many of my clients are the first in their family to graduate from college or earn this much money, and I’m the first financial professional they’ve worked with. It’s been a cool journey.

Sasha: You mentioned HENRYs. Can you define that for us? Maybe other listeners aren’t aware. What is a HENRY?

Chloé: HENRY is high-earning, not rich yet.

Sasha: Yeah. Okay. I just have never heard that term before. Yeah. That’s a new one for me. We really like that you focus on that niche. Do you believe that focusing your practice enhances your ability to meet your clients’ needs more effectively? Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Chloé: Yeah. I really do. My clients have unusually high salaries, especially for their age, as I work with people anywhere from late 20s to late 40s, typically. In addition to high base salaries, many of them have cash bonuses and equity. That gives them the ability to accelerate their goals and reach goals that they never even thought were possible before. So, yeah, just by being able to focus on that specific area between the equity and salaries, I’m able to help them with a lot of those different goals. And with the populations that I serve, the thing that they have in common is being the first generation of people who could build wealth in their families. I’ve learned a lot about how to really tap into who they are on a personal level. I believe that learning more about who they are, what’s important to them, their money history, and the things they’ve experienced growing up has a huge impact on how they manage their finances now. So, yeah, I just really wanted to focus on learning that and then matching that with my technical skills to give them the best chance of achieving success.

Connor: Just circling back to money history.

Chloé: I was just saying that one of the things that is also important is just learning, like, getting to know my clients on a personal level. So, you know, just learning about their money history, their experiences growing up, how they saw their parents manage money, and some of the things they’ve had to experience through early adulthood. All of those things really combined with my technical skillset can help give them the best chance of achieving their goals. And it creates a deep, personalized relationship.

Sasha: Speaking of personalized relationships, I’m just going to ask you the next question because we do have research by eMoney that highlights that personalization in the financial planning process definitely gives enhanced client value. So, was that a factor in focusing the scope of your practice? I think you said originally you started working with tech individuals. So, how do you provide a deeper level of personalization? And tell us a little bit about how you tailor that experience for them.

Chloé: Yeah. When I start with clients, one of the very first things I do is just have what I call a discovery meeting. So we talk in detail about their money history, goals, values, how they feel they’ve managed money so far, and if there are big regrets or mistakes they feel they’ve made, or things they’re proud of, or things they feel they’ve yet to accomplish. All of those things are really important to personalizing the advice that I give them. Some people might have more nontraditional goals, or they might have some things they want to accomplish that traditional advice would not prioritize financially, but it might make them feel better emotionally or help them sleep better at night. So, understanding all of those things can really help me personalize the advice I give to my clients.

Sasha: I love that you really dive deep with your clients. I think that tells a lot about who you are as a person and how you want to get to know them. So I’ll ask more about that later, but I’ll let Connor chime in.

Building a Remote Practice

Connor: It is super cool. I heard this morning actually that in the top 50 metropolitan cities, it’s actually more financially affordable for everyone to rent versus buy. And I know that the rent vs. buy conversation is a touchy subject, financially in one direction, it may make sense, but for lifestyle or personal reasons, it might not make sense one way or another. But that struck a chord with me when I heard that, especially in the Bay Area. I think the average rent price was $3,000 a month, and then with interest rates, I think the average mortgage price per month was $8,000.

Chloé: Oh, wow.

Connor: Wow.

Chloé: What?

Connor: Painful. Not all of them were that drastic. That was definitely the biggest difference. That is something that I know there is the stigma that most tech employees work somewhere on the West Coast, especially like Silicon Valley and other areas like that. We didn’t touch on this yet, but your practice is virtual. Can you talk a little bit about the decision to go virtual, as well as just how it goes?

Chloé: Yeah. It’s interesting. I know a lot of people became virtual during COVID, but I’ve been virtual since day one. So early in my business, I did meet with a handful of local clients in person, but it was just on occasion. It wasn’t a regular thing. The way that I’ve set things up is, I want to be able to access clients all over the country, as long as they fall into my target market and my niche. I didn’t want to be bound by location or where I am. I do have a large majority of my clients in Georgia just because people tend to search for someone who’s near them. However, I do have clients in multiple different states all across the country. I use scheduling software for prospect and client meetings. I use OnceHub, which used to be known as ScheduleOnce. My meeting cadences are structured for the most part. I have set meeting times throughout the year when I meet with clients. I often end up scheduling the next meeting during the current meeting. But if I don’t, they have access to the schedule online. All the meetings are held on Zoom. I also use eMoney, utilizing the client website extensively to get updates on client balances, transactions, and cash flow, which are significant focal points throughout the year.

Managing their cash flow, ensuring they’re on track with their savings goals, investment goals, things like that. We rely heavily on email too. I send recaps after each meeting via email with action items. Clients can also reach out to me at any time via email, and we can schedule additional meetings if they come up. So, we have a pretty structured approach with meeting clients on a virtual basis.

Connor: That’s great. And I totally agree that even if firms, teams, or advisors haven’t completely made the shift to being virtual first, it’s basically table stakes now to host virtual meetings. You talked about calendar scheduling, financial planning tools, using Zoom for hosting meetings, as well as sending custom written notes as a follow-up. If you had to give one best practice around hosting virtual meetings regardless of where that falls, what would it be?

Chloé: Yeah. I’d say the biggest thing is just having some structure. Clients are accustomed to having a good system and structure in place. They know when their next meeting will happen, how often they are meeting throughout the year, what the touch points are, and having open access so that clients can reach out if they have questions or if something comes up.

Connor: That’s great. Yeah. I know that the younger tech group tends to be a little bit more needy as far as time goes. I feel like it’s that section, the HENRY client, is where most traditional wealth planning firms are trying to get to. They’re trying to decrease the age of their overall book, find newer clients who may not have a ton of assets yet. As we start to talk about different subscription models or fee-based planning and moving away from the typical AUM model, I am curious. We talked a little bit about you changing your advertising to target that niche. But as you think about this intersection of the personalities or the general personality of who you’re trying to target, plus your level of personalization in the depth and detail of financial plans, can you talk a little bit about what that shift in your marketing looked like?

Marketing to Niche Prospects

Chloé: Absolutely. There was a combination of things. One of the things I did was update my website to explain more about who I work with, giving examples of single women in tech, tech couples, or other individuals dealing with different situations, whether it was a private company pre-IPO or a public company. I included case studies on my website and examples of the types of clients I typically work best with. Additionally, in terms of marketing, I write for different publications, so I am trying to get my name out through writing. I have also done public speaking, such as presenting at tech conferences or in front of tech organizations. I have also conducted virtual webinars and spoken in person to different groups. Additionally, I joined a couple of Facebook groups for tech employees and women in tech, where sometimes members ask technical questions, seek job opportunities, or inquire about financial matters such as ESPP plans, bonuses, financial planners, and tax-related issues. As these questions arise, I answer them and many of my clients who are already part of these groups recommend or vouch for me, which has helped me grow my client base.

Challenges with Serving HENRY, Tech Clients

Connor: That’s great. You mentioned something that I would like to explore further. Your niche market is detail-oriented and can be engineering-related due to the combination of age, demographic, industry, and income. What challenges come with catering to this type of client and their planning needs? While you have provided assistance with ESPP plans, tax bills, and other matters, can you discuss some challenges and opportunities you have faced while working with this group?”

Chloé: The most significant challenge I have with clients is that I am often the first financial professional they have ever worked with. I educate them on how we can work together effectively and how we can function as a team. Clients can rely on me for guidance whenever they make significant financial decisions, not having to make these decisions on their own. I become their thinking partner and help them make informed decisions. Many of my clients are first-generation, so they did not grow up discussing money in their households. Therefore, I provide a lot of education, even on the basics. After our discovery meeting, we evaluate where their money goes and how they manage their cash flow. I help clients create a system for managing their money, ensuring that they set aside enough for savings, have an emergency fund, save for short-term goals, invest enough for retirement or long-term financial freedom, and have a plan to manage their quarterly vesting schedules or stock options. We create a system where money automatically goes into different financial buckets, and we reassess as things come up. We plan ahead, considering when they will receive bonuses, stocks, or other financial benefits, and then manage those buckets of money. I provide a lot of education and support to my clients.

Sasha: That shows a lot of care as well. You have conversations around budgeting and help clients determine when to take specific financial actions. I believe your clients appreciate this level of interaction.

Chloé: I think it’s something that a lot of advisors might overlook, you know, they think, oh, well, if someone’s coming to me, they should already have that part figured out. But I mean, that’s a really big part of their life, kind of receiving this money on a regular basis. And so even if we talk ahead and have a plan ahead of time, sometimes they still want the hand holding or if we talked about, OK, we’re going to get this stock in at this month and you need to sell it. Sometimes they still want a meeting and say, hey, can we get on Zoom together for 15 minutes and can you watch me sell this stock to make sure I do it right?

Connor: Yeah. Am I clicking the right buttons?

Sasha: Yeah. Selling the right stock.

Conducting Effective Discovery Meetings to Personalize Plans

Sasha: Yeah. So earlier, you spoke a lot about your initial client meetings and discovery, asking really deep questions about your clients’ lives and really getting to know them. So I just want to know, how vital is it for you in that first meeting when building your client-planner relationships? We want to know what that’s like.

Chloé: Yeah. I think it’s extremely important to get to know the client before you provide any advice. One of the big things that I’d say to clients is, I don’t believe my job is to tell them exactly what to do with their money. It’s my job to serve as a guide. I can educate them on different financial planning topics so they can make more informed decisions, and we can also explore different possibilities together. Because I do this for a living, and I think about things that maybe are not even on their radar, I can talk about potential downsides. If they, for example, want to buy a house. Let’s talk through how much you can actually afford. What do the numbers look like? What are your expenses going to be outside of just the principal and interest of your mortgage? Are you going to have property taxes, insurance, or HOA fees if you’re in a condo or a townhouse? What is the maintenance going to look like? The total cost of homeownership that maybe they’re not thinking about. How can we go through all those things and compare that to your current situation? So just digging deep into some of those decisions and looking at various outcomes. And then from there, they can make an informed decision, whichever direction they feel is best, knowing all the information. But also just digging deep into who they are allows me to eliminate judgment and really meet them where they are. There are clients that maybe have personal goals, like I said, just some of the things that maybe are not traditional or not things that advisors would encourage them to do, such as helping their parents in retirement or helping family members, or just reaching goals outside of what typical financial advice tells you to do. I can approach that with knowing what’s important to them and making sure that I’m not judging them, but I’m really helping them make good decisions.

Connor: I think that level of alignment is something I want to double down on. From personal experience, I went through a values card exercise, and the very next day, I was trying to decide whether I should get a pair of shoes or something like that. It didn’t align with my five value cards that were left at the end of the exercise. On a much grander scale, aligning with family, financial goals, or personal life is crucial. I feel like—and I say it all the time, so I don’t mean it in any sort of negative way—meeting people where they are has so many meanings. It is very important to align both things together to drive motivation, confidence, and satisfaction with their plan and financial life.

Chloé: Yeah. Absolutely.

Sasha: I can agree. So you’re talking about discovery, and I want to ask if there are any memorable discovery meetings that you’ve had with a client that you can share. Especially since you’re discussing how their goals might be different from what is traditional, I’d love to hear about that.

Chloé: Yeah. So I think with clients, the biggest thing is just when we talk about early money memories. And so they might, you know, talk about how they saw their parents managing money growing up, and making that connection with how they manage money now. If they have parents who were divorced, and they had a single mom who worked really hard, there are good and bad things about that. Maybe she wasn’t around as much or she was always busy trying to provide. And so they have that work ethic as well. And so they’re also working very hard. For some clients, their mom was the breadwinner. The mom managed the finances. So they end up being female breadwinners and marrying someone who maybe makes significantly less than them. Some of those different things or dynamics that maybe clients have with couples that they saw mirrored in their relationships with their parents could be a big moment or just how they think about money.

And it’s also interesting having conversations with couples. Sometimes I ask them questions that they haven’t asked each other, which could be good or bad. But, yeah, it’s like some of the topics related to children or parents bring up major differences. I had a couple one time and the wife was from a different country, so it was super important to her to take care of her parents. The husband was from the U.S. She mentioned during our conversation that even if they have to struggle, they’re taking care of her parents. The husband was like, “Whoa.” And so, that kind of created a big conversation. And then, even with clients talking about children, one of the spouses may say, I don’t care if my kid wants to go to a private school out of state. We’re going to pay for it. And the other spouse is like, no, we’re paying for public in-state college. If it’s anything extra, they have to cover the difference. So having these conversations helps them get on the same page, and then we can all create a plan that works for everyone.

Sasha: I think what you do is really fabulous to get to know the client and focus on those moments that need to come out. But I’m curious because I feel like asking those money script questions, those money history questions can be kind of vulnerable. I would just want to know, what do those questions sound like when you ask the clients?

Chloé: Yeah. So my very first question is very open-ended. Just tell me a little bit about yourself and how you grew up. Where did they grow up? Do they have siblings? Were their parents together, or did they get divorced when they were younger? So all of those things are important to know the basics of who they are and where they come from. Then I talk about early memories of money. Do they have any experiences or things that really stick out? How do they define success in their life? It could be financial or personal, professional. Are there financial choices they made that they feel really good about or regret and talking in more detail about that. What does retirement look like to you? Is that something you have even considered? How do you find balance in your life? Do you feel like you have a good balance between work and life, family, or other hobbies or things you want to pursue? Charitable giving: Is that something that’s important to you? All of those are questions I try to ask to learn more about them and who they are.

Sasha: My brain is thinking about finpsych questions, like financial psychology questions and really building that client-planner relationship because that’s really what financial psychology is about. It’s the psychology between the client and the planner, as we learned from Dr. Lutter a few episodes ago. But I think that those are beautiful questions that you can ask to just understand who your client is. So thank you for sharing.

Connor: Yes, I think that I just want to echo Sasha. I think the depth of relationship that you’re building is drastically meaningful. And I think that ultimately, the confidence that you’re delivering through building a relationship and understanding where people are aligned toward is awesome. You’re somebody who is incredibly generous with your time, deep diving with your clients is one piece of that. But I think another thing which is very philanthropic and altruistic in nature is all that you’ve done in hopes for the next generation of advisors. And in particular, the BLX internship. Can you start with telling the audience a little bit about the BLX internship?

Creating Opportunities for Diverse Talent

Chloé: Yeah. Absolutely. So, the BLX internship was founded by me and three other advisors. Our goal is to provide an entry point into the profession for aspiring Black and Latinx financial planners. We do that through paid internships. Just thinking through our journeys getting into the industry, it wasn’t very easy as I told you in the beginning. Also, I remember in college, I majored in financial planning, went to a CFP Board-certified program, and I did an unpaid internship. As someone who had to pay her way through college, I didn’t really have many options. There weren’t paid internships available, so I had to do this unpaid internship, actually drive to a different city, almost an hour away to do it, and wait tables, you know, at nights and on the weekends to pay my bills while I was getting this experience that was required for my degree. I thought about that as just being a big barrier. Unpaid internships really help people who have the privilege of having the financial resources to do that. Also, just the different areas that you can enter into our profession. When you enter into a sales environment, a lot of times, people who don’t have big networks of people that they can sell products to end up failing out of the industry. Or they want to get to where they need to really stay in the industry. So all of those things we really thought about and wanted to provide that opportunity for people to get into our great industry. We’re not just an internship program. For firms, we effectively serve as a full-service recruiter. We look to help firms hire qualified, diverse talent. Whether they’re looking for interns or even people who are early in their careers, interns who’ve maybe gone through the program and are looking for their first job now because they’re graduating, or career changers that are looking to transition into the industry, we provide a lot of those resources for firms that want to build that talent pipeline. On the intern side, we provide career development resources, education scholarships. We do a lot of personalized coaching. We have conferences that they can attend and volunteer in to get experience. We had a couple of interns who attended Shift conference recently. So, yeah, just a combination of all those things is really helping us to bring that next generation of planners into the profession.

Connor: Yeah, it’s been great. I think the total package of obviously helping the interns and then helping place the interns, it definitely does correlate to a lot of value in the firms that you’re working with because they are getting extremely qualified people with more hands-on experience than I think many do coming directly out of a registered program. How can other advisors or other firms get more involved with BLX?

Chloé: Applications for summer of 2025 are going to open in the fall. So we encourage firms that are interested to reach out to us in the meantime. Before applications start, we’ll have a series of webinars in the fall. Also, if you’re looking for virtual internships, we encourage that, especially to have access to a wider pool of talent. But if you’re a firm that’s looking for an in-person intern, definitely contact us now so that we can start sourcing those candidates. We do a lot of our recruiting and outreach to the universities in August and September when school starts. So we can definitely target certain areas if firms are looking for talent that’s in person. Join our email list to get updates on the program. You can go to our website, which is blxinternship.org. You can email us at info@blxinternship.org and schedule a meeting to talk about your needs and see how we can help.

Sasha: I think that’s truly beautiful. My husband’s previous firm actually hired a BLX intern. He had the internship over the summer and then got hired on for his job. So it was a really great story to hear. And earlier, I made a little note about being in the industry coming in and having that unpaid internship. I just resonated with everything you said and just want to say that because I was mostly like, “Yep, I totally understand. I went through that process, tried to sell insurance, and completely failed out.” But one thing I just want to focus on is how your experience with the BLX interns and other leaders in this organization influenced how you see the future of the industry and how it’s really evolving?

Chloé: Yeah, I’d say just the interns themselves keep us motivated to continue with the program. We’ve seen a huge impact on their lives and people who had opportunities to get full-time positions that we maybe never thought that they could get into the industry or break into it or career changers that have been trying to get their first job for several years and are finally able to get connections to firms that are looking to hire. So, that’s something that’s huge to help keep us motivated. And hearing the success stories like what you just told me about, people who are able to work in firms. We have some former interns who have been at firms for several years now and are just getting their first promotions. But, yeah, it’s just been amazing. That’s awesome to see that support from the firms that are participating in the program, and also from the advisory community as a whole. We’re a nonprofit. So the corporate sponsorships that we’ve received, people who want to support us financially or give us resources to help the interns and the interns’ colleagues, who have made individual donations to our organizations, conference organizers who welcomed our interns to volunteer and come to the conferences. So that’s just been big, the support has been very helpful.

Sasha: It’s helpful for the students too, that builds their confidence, and that they want to be in this industry when they have support from others.

Connor: As eMoney is a sponsor of BLX and has been for the past few years, seeing some of those success stories passed on, it’s very heartwarming and gratifying even from just a sponsor of the program.

Chloé: Yeah. And we definitely appreciate the support from eMoney, and our interns have had the opportunity to get the eMoney certification as part of the program as well. It’s been super helpful and a great resume builder for them.

Connor: Yeah. We hope so. Well, just to wrap us up, I want to ask you our final question, which we ask all of our guests. How would you define the heart of advice when it comes to financial planning?

Chloé: Yeah. To me, the heart of advice is really helping clients truly discover who they are and what they value. I think a lot of times, people just float through life, and just accept what’s happening instead of really taking charge and understanding, outside of what social media or friends or family tell us, what’s important. “I want to discover who I truly am and what’s important to me.” So just being able to work with clients to help them on that path to discovery helps them make better life decisions, including decisions with their money. But even outside of that, just personal decisions with their career or their relationships. I think that’s really the heart of advice.

Connor: Thank you. And I think I’ve heard you say before that your net worth does not equal your self-worth. I think that you surmise it very well in that statement. But thank you so much for your time, Chloé. We really appreciated having you on and sharing your experience and your insights. You are a wonderful advisor and doing great things to help advance the industry.

Chloé: Thank you so much.

Sasha: See you guys next time.

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